What REALLY Makes Copy Convert, With Billy Broas

Published by: David Garfinkel on 02-24-2025

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27 Years Ago, pop singer Cher asked us this question:

“Do you believe in life after love?”

… and it promptly rocketed to the top of the charts, selling 11 million copies of the song.

Today, in 2025, a better question—especially for copywriters—is

“Do you believe in sales without belief?”

It’s a question our returning champion today, Billy Broas, has thought about a lot, and mastered the answer to. And he’s written a book about it, which I highly recommend and we’ll talk about later in the show.

Billy has led a very interesting life. He’s a beer brewer and beer judge. In fact, he started teaching cohort-based courses online 11 years ago, on, wouldn’t you know it, beer tasting.

But he has also done a lot in marketing, advising top entrepreneurs and working in more than 100 niches, including such unusual ones as vegan fitness, Kundalini yoga, and machine learning.

He has some unique and valuable perspectives on marketing and copywriting, which everyone should know about. I’m also proud to say Billy was my mentoring client, way back when. And since then he has been successful in so many ways.

But before we hear what he has to say, I think you should hear what I have to say:

Copy is powerful. You’re responsible for how you use what you hear on this podcast. Most of the time, common sense is all you need. But if you make extreme claims... and/or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health, finance, and business opportunity... you may want to get a legal review after you write and before you start using your copy. My larger clients do this all the time.


1. How has studying argumentation changed the way you approach copywriting?

2. How do the tools of philosophy, like syllogisms, help in structuring better marketing messages?

3. What is a valid and sound argument, and why should copywriters care about these concepts when crafting their copy?

4. What is the biggest mistake content creators make when producing free content?

5. How does the Belief-Building approach tie into the Five Lightbulbs?

7. Tell us about your book Simple Marketing For Smart People

Billy’s book, Simple Marketing For Smart People: The One Question You Need to Win Customers without Gimmicks, Hype, or Hard Selling

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CW1MQZXP

Bill’s previous podcast about his 5 Lightbulbs model of marketing:

https://copywriterspodcast.com/index.php?podcast=1398

on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTvfcB12CRk


Keywords: proof in copywriting

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